This story was originally written as a post by Simon Derricutt. Simon’s comments and reply’s are often more valuable than the story itself. I feel this one is very worthy of a headline.
Energy and Work
At the basic level, all energy (and work) is free. It costs us effort to mine it or harvest it, or we have to pay someone else to do that job for us. Although a magnet motor would be pretty nice if it worked, there’s still a cost involved in manufacture and we’d look at that cost relative to what the other methods cost us. The breakthrough meme is thus a little fuzzy, therefore, since what we’re really looking for is a method of powering our lives that is cheaper.
Testing for Overunity
Any such method that was real would be very easy to demonstrate to the satisfaction of any scientific test, and so refusal to subject it to such a test is a big Red Flag. If you ignore those red flags and invest anyway, you’ll probably lose your money. That’s about the size of it….
Edit: since I just read a nice comment from Stuart at https://disqus.com/home/discus… where it looks like Stuart is totally missing the point that a real OU machine would be dead easy to test and to demonstrate. He’s answering about Mark D here:
“So as you say Mark struggles to determine what constitutes an OU device, he struggles to understand how it works when he does see one, and he struggles to think outside the box without his instruments to tell him, because he is so conditioned to other factors influencing the way he thinks.”
“Mark Dansie and his associates need to learn to assess possible OU without using their instruments. To work using only his initiative and imagination.
Will he makes mistakes, of course he will. Just like when driving a car you make mistakes, making a wrong move which lands you in a near miss or other bother like thinking, damn I should have turned at the next corner not this one.
The main thing is to go and look at OU with an open mind, not a closed one.
The question should be “will it work” ? Not why it won’t work because I cannot work outside my laws of physics prison walls.”
No, Stuart, the question isn’t why it will work or won’t work. The question is does it demonstrably work, and then you can go into the question of why if you want to. Asterix gave a pretty good method of proving whether the Rosch device worked – stick it in the wilds somewhere just doing real physical work. My version of that to test an OU idea is to set it going and walk away from it leaving it running doing some real work. The longer it keeps on doing work, the more you have to accept that it’s not faked in some way. Measurements are the icing on the cake, but the body of it is that demonstration of an appreciable amount of work being done beyond what could be stored inside it with known methods (unknown methods may of course also be a major discovery even if the thing itself isn’t really OU). Pump water up into a reservoir or lift weights and you can see the amounts being lifted without any measurement kit around.
Even Yilidiz with his fan could have demonstrated this way, by just leaving it running untouched for any reasonable time. Put it on the table, set it running and walk away. After a few months any conceivable battery or other power source would have been exhausted and credibility would gradually arrive. Running a fan at around 8W or so for 5 minutes or so and then stopping it and handling it is bound to destroy credibility, when that amount of energy could be supplied by an easily-changeable coin-cell and a bit of sleight-of-hand.
So: first demonstrate that something indubitably works. Then you can get down to the measurements and quantify just how well it works and modify the theory that has worked well up until that point. Recognising a real OU device will actually be pretty easy when it does get shown. It’s also worth noting that PVs comply with these ideas pretty nicely, and explaining the photoelectric effect was quite a useful change to theory (thanks, Einstein). Is it hard to demonstrate a PV works without measuring kit? No, just connect it to a motor and show work being done – as long as there’s light it will work.
Can we get something like a PV working on any other part of the EM spectrum? Of course – it’s all the same principle. Things we can do with RF we can also do with light, X-rays and gamma rays if we get the device the right dimensions and construction. If we look at the power flux available and the efficiency with which we can convert it to electricity then we can predict just how much power we can get, so Steorn’s latest offering may indeed actually work this time. The cost of that power per kWh may however be somewhat excessive when compared to other sources and it may not work everywhere – may be a problem if you take it hiking and rely on it to charge your satellite phone. If you tell me it will supply kW in future, you have to demonstrate that and not just claim it. I expect it will be stuck in the sub-watt range since there’s not much more than that actually available.
I look forward to the time that someone shows a device that breaks the laws of physics we know. Time for yet another modification of the laws based on experimental proof, and some fun for people working out why. At any point in time, the laws are simply “the best we know so far” and are open to disproof. That’s the way science works.